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Precursor Games Bought Art Assets From Silicon Knights, Nintendo "wished them luck".

M

Mama Robotnik

Member
Wired.com had a chat with Precursor games:
“We did purchase some art assets from Silicon Knights,” Precursor Games CEO Caporicci told Wired via phone this morning, “and we were very happy to be able to put those assets created by the talented past employees to use.”
Click to expand...

Nintendo has apparently wished the company luck with the crowdsourcing and development:
Nintendo, Caporicci says, owns the rights to Eternal Darkness. “We’ve been in constant communication with [Nintendo], and they’ve been supporting in working with us to put the game on [Wii U],” he said. “They even wished us luck right before we launched the campaign. So we have a great relationship with them, and we’ll just see where that goes from here.”
Click to expand...

How does a company of former Silicon Knights employees, buy assets from their former employer - a company that no one appears to work for anymore?

I've made a donation (to thank Dyack and McCulloch for past efforts rather than any optimistic expectations of this venture) - but this story continues to make less sense.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
I'm not going to call them liars, no point.

However I really do find it odd that if Nintendo really wished them luck, and meant it why they wouldn't sign off on this being Eternal Darkness 2.

At least one good thing came out of it, we no longer need to say the Ip ownership is complicated, Nintendo flat owns it and that is all there is to it.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
aZ91JHq.jpg
 
S

Snowden's Secret

Banned
I'm not a business lawyer, but it's my understanding that a company can continue to exist even without employees. The company can own assets, and shareholders own the company.

I'm not sure who oversees the sale of assets in this scenario however.
 
F

frankie_baby

Member
good luck going against our totally amazeballs absolutely gorgeous retro developed e3 announcing eternal darkness 2


amidoingitright
 
N

nekomix

Member
I exploded when I read Nintendo's answer about this project :) Seems they're not that appealed about the project, they just are looking how it goes on, if they make a move or not...
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
DocSeuss said:
Presumably the company exists as a legal entity.
Click to expand...

This. Corporations are people under US law, so it's very much possible to buy from a company as long as there is someone there to sign the documents.


It makes for a good tax dodge as well... I imagine it was a lot more than "art assets" that were "bought" and it was likely for a sum around $1. Whether this is legal and all.... well... It's very possible it is, but it's also possible that the loop hole they found won't save them.
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
DocSeuss said:
Presumably the company exists as a legal entity.
Click to expand...

I don't know a lot about businesses as legal entities. Can you elaborate a bit?

I don't understand US bankruptcy. If Silicon Knights owes millions to Epic - but doesn't make any actual games or apparently have any actual employees - shouldn't there be some public notices of bankruptcy?

How can Precursor purchase assets when they have not sold any product to produce capital - presumably someone invested - I wonder who?
 
Giolon

Giolon

Member
From my own post that got beaten by this one:

Denis Dyack hopped onto SK.net's (formerly TooHuman.net) pretty much defunct forums to make this proclaimation including the first? public confirmation that he's no longer at Silicon Knights at all:

denisdyack said:
Hi Everyone,

It has been a very long time. I am sorry I was away so long, it was not intended and I truly regret that I could not interact more with you all. I wanted to do so but it simply was not an option for me at the time. I really hope you can understand.

As most of you already probably have seen, I am no longer at Silicon Knights and I joined Precursor Games some time ago. I invite you all to join us at Precursor Games if you are so inclined. I will be interacting more there (our whole team will be - it is one of the principle pillars of the company) and I look forward to seeing what we can accomplish with the community and our crowd sourcing campaigns.

I do see that some people are disappointed at the way things turned out, so was I and many others, believe me. However, rather then dwell on that, we are moving forward a positive direction that I hope you can also join.

Hope to see you at Precursor!
Click to expand...

And in a follow up post after some less than enthusiastic responses from the people who were essentially SK's most diehard fans:

denisdyack said:
We have already seen many familiar faces and it is great to see - it has been nothing but encouraging. It does sadden me to see some of the responses here but the many unfortunate things happened and that is never easy. I come to you and others with open arms, looking to future because I truly believe that is the best approach to move forward. I can assure you, myself and many other did all they could to make things the best they could be without hesitation. I am doing this now - please don't take this any other way. If anyone of you are interested in talking with me about this over Live, I would be happy to do so. Personally, I would like move forward with each and everyone one of you in a positive way.
Click to expand...

Now from Wired, Precursor bought art assets from SK:
Wired said:
Elements of Shadow of the Eternals were created at game developer Silicon Knights and were sold to new developer Precursor Games, Wired has learned.
Click to expand...

As a side note, on his interview w/ IGN Denis stressed he was not involved with the business side of Precursor at all in any way. I wonder if there are any legal reasons for that...

TLDR; Dude laid off by Denis hires Denis, as he abandons his old company that's got a $9 million torpedo hole in it due to his Epic (pun intended) lawsuit backfire, and then "purchases" art assets from SK so that the new company can continue to work on SK's project in all but name, while taking painstaking and obvious steps to keep themselves legally walled off from the lawsuit fallout.

This whole thing is a fucking shell game.
 
S

Spoo

Member
Huh, so I guess I was right: Nintendo is basically in on this as a no-risk venture to get a (mostly) timed exclusive for Wii, and probably has them by the balls thanks to this game basically being cribbed from Nintendo's own IP.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
Giolon said:
TLDR; Dude laid off by Denis hires Denis, as he abandons his old company that's got a $9 million torpedo hole in it due to his Epic (pun intended) lawsuit backfire, and then "purchases" art assets from SK so that the new company can continue to work on SK's project in all but name, while taking painstaking and obvious steps to keep themselves legally walled off from the lawsuit fallout.

This whole thing is a fucking shell game.
Click to expand...

To be frank, this all sounds shady as hell.
In the end, it's probably 'just business.'
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
Yeah. Given how slow they are tracking and how heavily front loaded KS's tend to be I just don't see this happening. Add in how many things could go wrong with this, I just feel bad for people who get their hopes up.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
djplaeskool said:
To be frank, this all sounds shady as hell.
Click to expand...

Shady for sure, but probably legal. It's the company that assumes all liability (that is what a corporation is under US law), and the selling of assets (likely at a substantial discount) would likely be okay, what with those assets not really being auctionable.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Spoo said:
Huh, so I guess I was right: Nintendo is basically in on this as a no-risk venture to get a (mostly) timed exclusive for Wii, and probably has them by the balls thanks to this game basically being cribbed from Nintendo's own IP.
Click to expand...

If they had them by the balls the game wouldn't be releasing on PC.
 
statham

statham

Member
Giolon said:
From my own post that got beaten by this one:

Denis Dyack hopped onto SK.net's (formerly TooHuman.net) pretty much defunct forums to make this proclaimation including the first? public confirmation that he's no longer at Silicon Knights at all:



And in a follow up post after some less than enthusiastic responses from the people who were essentially SK's most diehard fans:



Now from Wired, Precursor bought art assets from SK:


As a side note, on his interview w/ IGN Denis stressed he was not involved with the business side of Precursor at all in any way. I wonder if there are any legal reasons for that...

TLDR; Dude laid off by Denis hires Denis, as he abandons his old company that's got a $9 million torpedo hole in it due to his Epic (pun intended) lawsuit backfire, and then "purchases" art assets from SK so that the new company can continue to work on SK's project in all but name, while taking painstaking and obvious steps to keep themselves legally walled off from the lawsuit fallout.

This whole thing is a fucking shell game.
Click to expand...
disgusting. Guys stop giving him money.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
animlboogy said:
I don't have high hoped for this either but don't Kickstarters generally spike at the start and then spike again bigger at the end?
Click to expand...

Kickstarters are extremely heavily front loaded, and while some do get a decent bump at the end, success or failure for most really depend on that first day or two and how much hype they have going into them.
 
S

Spoo

Member
ArchedThunder said:
If they had them by the balls the game wouldn't be releasing on PC.
Click to expand...

Well, Precursor is funding it (via anyone dumb enough to help fund this), and they need to make some money back -- hence PC. But do you honestly think Nintendo would "wish them luck" if their move was to take this to direct competitors, like Sony?
 
D

Dascu

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
I don't know a lot about businesses as legal entities. Can you elaborate a bit?

I don't understand US bankruptcy. If Silicon Knights owes millions to Epic - but doesn't make any actual games or apparently have any actual employees - shouldn't there be some public notices of bankruptcy?

How can Precursor purchase assets when they have not sold any product to produce capital - presumably someone invested - I wonder who?
Click to expand...

SK owes money to Epic. SK sells assets to Precursor. Money that SK from that deal is now something that Epic can get after the entire bankruptcy case is settled.

The only fear is that SK is selling stuff below value, and therefore diminishing the sum that Epic can get from the lawsuit.
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
Silicon Knights is possibly the most fascinating company in gaming.

1) Makes some Amiga games.

2) Joins forces with another company to make a Vampire game, the police have to be called in during development due to tensions between the two companies.

3) Spends two years making a cancelled PS1 four-disc extravaganza.

4) Adopted by Nintendo, makes two great games, are being recommended for top projects by Shigeru Miyamoto and have complete financial security and a guiding hand.

5) Bails on Nintendo, makes two rubbish games and loads of cancelled ones.

6) Tries to sue a massive company for reasons of ego, loses, owes millions.

7) Allegedly funnels Activision money into Eternal Darkness 2.

8) Makes second company, and buys the Eternal Darkness 2 demo and assets - that were allegedly created using misappropriated Activision money.

9) Starts crowdsourcing project with second company, while first company continues to exist in some sort of legal limbo.

Have I got this right?
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Spoo said:
Well, Precursor is funding it (via anyone dumb enough to help fund this), and they need to make some money back -- hence PC. But do you honestly think Nintendo would "wish them luck" if their move was to take this to direct competitors, like Sony?
Click to expand...

Well they are saying it might come to other platforms, but that could just be them attempting to get money from Playstation and Xbox users by lying.
 
C

CrisKre

Member
These guys really want this game to happen. As an ED fan, i really hope they work it out, find the funding and dodge any legal roadblocks.
 
S

Spoo

Member
ArchedThunder said:
Well they are saying it might come to other platforms, but that could just be them attempting to get money from Playstation and Xbox users by lying.
Click to expand...

I think you're right about that. The air around Wii U isn't great right now, and Nintendo needs low-risk potential gain scenarios; I see this as one. Again, the low-risk comes from the fact that Precursor is cribbing the ED world without potentially ruining the IP (Nintendo still has that locked). Nintendo doesn't pay a dime, and Precursor immediately tosses it to the consumer. If it works out well, I think we'll see an ED2. If it doesn't, the big N gets a game, at the very least.
 
Giolon

Giolon

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
Silicon Knights is possibly the most fascinating company in gaming.

1) Makes some Amiga games.

2) Joins forces with another company to make a Vampire game, the police have to be called in during development due to tensions between the two companies.

3) Spends two years making a cancelled PS1 four-disc extravaganza.

4) Adopted by Nintendo, makes two great games, are being recommended for top projects by Shigeru Miyamoto and have complete financial security and a guiding hand.

5) Bails on Nintendo, makes two rubbish games and loads of cancelled ones.

6) Tries to sue a massive company for reasons of ego, loses, owes millions.

7) Allegedly funnels Activision money into Eternal Darkness 2.

8) Makes second company, and buys the Eternal Darkness 2 demo and assets - that were allegedly created using misappropriated Activision money.

9) Starts crowdsourcing project with second company, while first company continues to exist in some sort of legal limbo.

Have I got this right?
Click to expand...

More or less, yep.
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
This all seems incredibly shady and the game is never going to reach the standards of Eternal Darkness even if it ever did come out. Dyack just wants some free money.
 
Alebrije

Alebrije

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
Silicon Knights is possibly the most fascinating company in gaming.

1) Makes some Amiga games.

2) Joins forces with another company to make a Vampire game, the police have to be called in during development due to tensions between the two companies.

3) Spends two years making a cancelled PS1 four-disc extravaganza.

4) Adopted by Nintendo, makes two great games, are being recommended for top projects by Shigeru Miyamoto and have complete financial security and a guiding hand.

5) Bails on Nintendo, makes two rubbish games and loads of cancelled ones.

6) Tries to sue a massive company for reasons of ego, loses, owes millions.

7) Allegedly funnels Activision money into Eternal Darkness 2.

8) Makes second company, and buys the Eternal Darkness 2 demo and assets - that were allegedly created using misappropriated Activision money.

9) Starts crowdsourcing project with second company, while first company continues to exist in some sort of legal limbo.

Have I got this right?
Click to expand...


welcometothematrix.gif
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
CrisKre said:
These guys really want this game to happen. As an ED fan, i really hope they work it out, find the funding and dodge any legal roadblocks.
Click to expand...

You should petition Nintendo to give the project to one of their more stable first or second party studios versus hoping that what remains of SK in Precursor can make it while dodging all of the legal land mines they setup for themselves.
 
A

ArchedThunder

Banned
Spoo said:
I think you're right about that. The air around Wii U isn't great right now, and Nintendo needs low-risk potential gain scenarios; I see this as one. Again, the low-risk comes from the fact that Precursor is cribbing the ED world without potentially ruining the IP (Nintendo still has that locked). Nintendo doesn't pay a dime, and Precursor immediately tosses it to the consumer. If it works out well, I think we'll see an ED2. If it doesn't, the big N gets a game, at the very least.
Click to expand...

Assuming Precursor games doesn't get hit with legal action for something and the game is released it will probably go one to two ways.
1.Game does well, Nintendo contracts them to do ED2.
2.Game does poorly and Nintendo ignores Precursor games and then the game might get ported to other systems in an attempt to make some money.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
“We did purchase some art assets from Silicon Knights,”
Click to expand...

Seeing as Dyack is Silicon Knights, does that mean they essentially paid themselves? Even if the money had to go straight to SK's old creditors.
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
Silicon Knights is possibly the most fascinating company in gaming.

1) Makes some Amiga games.

2) Joins forces with another company to make a Vampire game, the police have to be called in during development due to tensions between the two companies.

3) Spends two years making a cancelled PS1 four-disc extravaganza.

4) Adopted by Nintendo, makes two great games, are being recommended for top projects by Shigeru Miyamoto and have complete financial security and a guiding hand.

5) Bails on Nintendo, makes two rubbish games and loads of cancelled ones.

6) Tries to sue a massive company for reasons of ego, loses, owes millions.

7) Allegedly funnels Activision money into Eternal Darkness 2.

8) Makes second company, and buys the Eternal Darkness 2 demo and assets - that were allegedly created using misappropriated Activision money.

9) Starts crowdsourcing project with second company, while first company continues to exist in some sort of legal limbo.

Have I got this right?
Click to expand...

I'm trying to feel pity for them but it's not possible. Good luck to them and anyone who funds them money.
 
D

Dascu

Member
Jackpot said:
Seeing as Dyack is Silicon Knights, does that mean they essentially paid themselves? Even if the money had to go straight to SK's old creditors.
Click to expand...

People are not corporations. But yes, one company with Dyack as an executive made a transaction with another company with Dyack as an executive. This is in principle perfectly legal.
 
M

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
ASIS said:
Nintendo should just publish this game already. Enough with the 12 episode bullshit.
Click to expand...
Well, Wii U could certainly use the games, but perhaps there are trust issues we don't know about.

Mama Robotnik said:
Silicon Knights is possibly the most fascinating company in gaming.

1) Makes some Amiga games.

2) Joins forces with another company to make a Vampire game, the police have to be called in during development due to tensions between the two companies.

3) Spends two years making a cancelled PS1 four-disc extravaganza.

4) Adopted by Nintendo, makes two great games, are being recommended for top projects by Shigeru Miyamoto and have complete financial security and a guiding hand.

5) Bails on Nintendo, makes two rubbish games and loads of cancelled ones.

6) Tries to sue a massive company for reasons of ego, loses, owes millions.

7) Allegedly funnels Activision money into Eternal Darkness 2.

8) Makes second company, and buys the Eternal Darkness 2 demo and assets - that were allegedly created using misappropriated Activision money.

9) Starts crowdsourcing project with second company, while first company continues to exist in some sort of legal limbo.

Have I got this right?
Click to expand...

I don't know the details on this, but was it their first choice? I know Factor 5 didn't want to bail on Nintendo either, but they were dragging their feet on letting devs know about Wii and Factor 5 had to find work, so they pitched Lair to Sony and the rest is history.

It also sounded like a lot changed with their Too Human E3 demo. Supposedly a build that was shown behind closed doors was completely different from what was shown at E3. IIRC, there was some type of update to UE3 or they switched over to it, which didn't give them enough time to get prepared for E3 and left a lot of negative buzz for the game.

I'm not saying, I'm defending DD & SK's actions, but I don't think it's fair to solely blame them.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
ArchedThunder said:
Assuming Precursor games doesn't get hit with legal action for something and the game is released it will probably go one to two ways.
1.Game does well, Nintendo contracts them to do ED2.
2.Game does poorly and Nintendo ignores Precursor games and then the game might get ported to other systems in an attempt to make some money.
Click to expand...

The choice of Wii U and PC is a very odd combination... I'd say Nintendo isn't completely free of this pot... but obviously not so involved that they can force an exclusive.
 
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